Journals of the Senate
46 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1997, Canada
Journals of the Senate
Issue 30
Thursday, December 11, 1997
2:00 p.m.
The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Beaudoin, Bolduc, Bonnell, Bryden, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Cochrane, Cogger, Cohen, Comeau, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Doyle, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Forest, Forrestall, Ghitter, Gigantès, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Gustafson, Haidasz, Hays, Hébert, Hervieux-Payette, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kelly, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Lavoie-Roux, LeBreton, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, MacDonald, Maheu, Marchand, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Petten, Phillips, Pitfield, Poulin, Rivest, Roberge, Robertson, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rompkey, Rossiter, St. Germain, Sparrow, Spivak, Stanbury, Stewart, Stollery, Stratton, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Whelan, Wood
PRAYERS
Ordered, That the Senate do resolve itself, at 3:00 p.m., into a Committee of the Whole in order to receive the Honourable Stéphane Dion, P.C., M.P., President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, respecting the Quebec Resolution.
APPLICATION FOR EMERGENCY DEBATE
Pursuant to Rule 60(4), the Honourable Senator Doyle requested that the Senate do now adjourn for the purpose of discussing a matter of urgent public importance, namely: Canada's blood supply.After debate,
The Speaker ruled that the request did not meet the requirements for an emergency debate.Whereupon the Speaker's Ruling was appealed.
The question was put on whether the Speaker's Ruling shall be sustained.
With leave of the Senate and pursuant to Order, the division was deferred until the Committee of the Whole concluded its proceedings.
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE
At 3:05 p.m., pursuant to Order, the Senate was accordingly adjourned during pleasure and put into a Committee of the Whole on the Quebec Resolution, the Honourable Senator Corbin in the Chair.-In the Committee-
Pursuant to Rule 21, the Honourable Stéphane Dion, P.C., M.P., President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, was escorted to a seat in the Senate Chamber.After debate,
The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C. (L'Acadie-Acadia):That the Committee rise, and that the Chairman report that they have concluded their deliberations.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on division._________________________________________________
The sitting of the Senate resumed. The Chairman of the Committee reported that it had concluded its deliberations.RECORDED DIVISION
The Senate proceeded to the taking of the recorded division on whether the Speaker's Ruling shall be sustained respecting the request of the Honourable Senator Doyle for an emergency debate.The question being put on whether the Speaker's Ruling shall be sustained, it was adopted on the following division:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Austin, Bacon, Bonnell, Bryden, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Forest, Gigantès, Grafstein, Graham, Haidasz, Hays, Hébert, Hervieux-Payette, Joyal, Kirby, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Marchand, Mercier, Milne, Moore, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Petten, Poulin, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Stanbury, Stewart, Stollery, Taylor, Watt, Whelan, Wood-45
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Atkins, Beaudoin, Bolduc, Cochrane, Cogger, Cohen, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Forrestall, Ghitter, Grimard, Gustafson, Johnson, Kelleher, Kelly, Kinsella, Lavoie-Roux, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, MacDonald, Nolin, Oliver, Phillips, Rivest, Roberge, St. Germain, Spivak, Stratton, Tkachuk-31ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Nil
APPLICATION FOR EMERGENCY DEBATE
Pursuant to Rule 60(4), the Honourable Senator Nolin requested that the Senate do now adjourn for the purpose of discussing a matter of urgent public importance, namely: the application of Section 12 of the Canadian Charter of Rights to murder by compassion.Debate.
A Point of Order was raised as to the acceptability of a second request for an emergency debate.Debate.
A Point of Order was then raised concerning the right to raise any Point of Order during Daily Routine of Business.Debate.
_____________________________________________
SPEAKER'S RULING
It is in order to raise a point of order now because we have not reached the daily Routine of Business. If the honourable senators would look at rule 23(1), it is clear.During the time provided for the consideration of the daily Routine of Business and the daily Question Period, it shall not be in order to raise any question of privilege or point of order.
We have not reached the daily Routine of Business because it is clear under the rules that questions of urgent importance must come before statements. I have not called Senators' Statements, so we are not into the daily Routine of Business.Honourable senators, all I have to work with is the rule book. You ask where we are in our business. In response, I would refer you to page 65, rule 60(4) which states:
When the Senate meets, after a notice or notices has or have been received and distributed pursuant to sections (1) and (2) above, the Speaker shall, instead of calling "Senators' Statements," recognize the Senator or Senators who gave notice, in the order in which their notices were received.At this point, we have not reached the daily Routine of Business. The very purpose of an urgent debate is to prevent the Senate from going into Routine Business. It is a motion meant to supersede the business of the Senate for that day. The motion must be on an urgent matter.
In reading that rule, honourable senators, I can only conclude from the fact that it states, "notice or notices," that it is proper to receive more than one.I would rule, on the point made by Honourable Senator Taylor, that rule 61 (6) applies to sections (1) and (2) of rule 61 which states that, when leave is granted - and, at this point, leave has not been granted to any motion - new motions may come forward.
If a new motion comes forward and I find that it is in order and I ask that you agree to grant leave, then there can be no further motion put after that until such time as leave is granted. I rule that it is in order for the Honourable Senator Nolin to proceed.The Senate resumed consideration of the request of the Honourable Senator Nolin for an emergency debate.
The Speaker ruled that the request did not meet the requirements for an emergency debate.Whereupon the Speaker's Ruling was appealed.
The question was put on whether the Speaker's Ruling shall be sustained.DEFERRED DIVISION
At 5:30 p.m., pursuant to Rule 67(2), the Senate proceeded to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the sub-amendment of the Honourable Senator Phillips to the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Cools to the motion of the Honourable Senator Moore, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ferretti Barth, for the second reading of Bill C-16, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the Interpretation Act (powers to arrest and enter dwellings).The question was put on the sub-amendment of the Honourable Senator Phillips, seconded by the Honourable Senator Wood, that the motion in amendment be amended by deleting the word "and" at the end of paragraph (b) and by adding the following after paragraph (c):
"(d) the Court, by its Order of November 19, 1997 that Bill C-16 must be enacted by December 19, 1997, is impeding proceedings in Parliament and is subordinating the Senate of Canada; and
(e) the Court is usurping the royal prerogative of the Sovereign who, with the advice and consent of Parliament, keeps and upholds the Queen's Peace and the public peace and security of all.".The sub-amendment was negatived on the following division:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Atkins, Cochrane, Cogger, Cohen, Cools, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Doyle, Eyton, Forrestall, Grimard, Gustafson, Kelleher, Kelly, Keon, Kinsella, Lavoie-Roux, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, MacDonald, Oliver, Phillips, Rivest, Roberge, Stratton, Tkachuk-27NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Austin, Bacon, Bonnell, Bryden, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Corbin, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth , Forest, Ghitter, Gigantès, Grafstein, Graham, Haidasz, Hays, Hébert, Hervieux-Payette, Joyal, Kenny, Kirby, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Marchand, Mercier, Milne, Moore, Pearson, Pépin, Petten, Poulin, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia) , Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rompkey, Stanbury, Stewart, Stollery, Taylor, Watt, Whelan, Wood-45,ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Johnson, Spivak-2
RECORDED DIVISION
The Senate proceeded to the taking of the recorded division on whether the Speaker's Ruling shall be sustained respecting the request of the Honourable Senator Nolin for an emergency debate.The question being put on whether the Speaker's Ruling shall be sustained, it was adopted on the following division:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Austin, Bacon, Bonnell, Bryden, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Cools, Corbin, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Forest, Gigantès, Grafstein, Graham, Haidasz, Hays, Hébert, Hervieux-Payette, Joyal, Kenny, Kirby, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Marchand, Mercier, Milne, Moore, Pearson, Pépin, Poulin, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Stanbury, Stewart, Stollery, Taylor, Whelan-41NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Atkins, Beaudoin, Bolduc, Cochrane, Cogger, Cohen, DeWare, Di Nino, Doyle, Eyton, Forrestall, Ghitter, Grimard, Johnson, Kelleher, Kelly, Keon, Kinsella, Lavoie-Roux, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton , MacDonald, Nolin, Oliver, Phillips, Rivest, Spivak, Stratton, Tkachuk-30ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Nil
________________________________________________
Pursuant to Rule 13(1), the Speaker left the Chair to resume the same at 8:00 p.m.The sitting resumed.
_________________________________________________
Ordered, That the remaining requests for an emergency debate be postponed until tomorrow; and that when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until tomorrow at 10:00 a.m.DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Tabling of Reports From Inter-Parliamentary Delegations
The Honourable Senator Hays tabled the following:Report of the Canadian delegation of the Canada-Japan Inter-Parliamentary Group, concerning its participation at the Eighth Annual Meeting between the Group and the Japan-Canada Parliamentarians Friendship League, held in Japan, from November 8 to 16, 1997.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-305.
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C. tabled the following:First Report of the Canadian NATO Parliamentary Association on the 1997 Spring Session of the North Atlantic Assembly (NATO Parliamentarians) held in Luxembourg, from May 28 to June 1, 1997.-Sessional Paper No.1/36-306.
With leave, The Senate reverted to Tabling of Documents.The Honourable Senator Carstairs tabled the following:
Report on the Export of Military Goods From Canada for 1996.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-307S.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Third reading of Bill S-5, An Act to amend the Canada Evidence Act and the Criminal Code in respect of persons with disabilities, to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act in respect of persons with disabilities and other matters and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C., that the Bill be read the third time.
After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.The Bill was then read the third time and passed.
Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate have passed this Bill to which they desire their concurrence.Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Moore, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ferretti Barth, for the second reading of Bill C-16, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the Interpretation Act (powers to arrest and enter dwellings),
And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Cools, seconded by the Honourable Senator Sparrow, that the motion be amended by deleting all the words after "That" and substituting the following therefor:"Bill C-16, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the Interpretation Act (powers to arrest and enter dwellings), be not now read a second time because
(a) the Senate is opposed to the principle of a bill which has been placed before Parliament as a result of the judgment of the Supreme Court of Canada of May 22, 1997, and of the Court's Orders of June 27 and November 19, 1997;
(b) the Senate finds it repugnant that the Supreme Court is infringing on the sovereign rights of Parliament to enact legislation and is failing to respect the constitutional comity between the courts and Parliament; and
(c) the Court is in effect coercing Parliament by threatening chaotic consequences respecting law enforcement and arrests if Parliament does not pass this bill.".The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on division.
The question then being put on the motion of the Honourable Senator Moore, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ferretti Barth, for the second reading of Bill C-16, it was adopted on division.
The Bill was then read the second time, on division.The Honourable Senator Moore moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ferretti Barth, that the Bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.Second reading of Bill S-9, An Act respecting depository bills and depository notes and to amend the Financial Administration Act.
The Honourable Senator Hervieux-Payette, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Poulin, that the Bill be read the second time.After debate, The Honourable Senator Stratton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Di Nino, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.Orders No. 2 to 5 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Motions
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gigantès:
That for the duration of the present Session any select committee may meet during adjournments of the Senate.After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Callbeck:That the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs be empowered to review the regulation proposed by the Chief Electoral Officer, tabled in the Senate on December 10, 1997.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.Orders No. 4 and 5 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.Reports of Committees
Orders No. 1 to 4 were called and postponed until the next sitting.Other
Orders No. 8 (inquiry), 3 and 1 (motions) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
MOTIONS
The Honourable Senator Phillips moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cochrane:That the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology - Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs have power to sit at 4:00 p.m. on Tuesday, December 16, 1997, even though the Senate may then be sitting and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C.:That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.